Interview Magazine: Cover Story Excerpt Lyrics - Kanye West

MCQUEEN: You've been on the scene as an artist now for 10 years, which is impressive, given the level of interest and artistry that you've managed to sustain in your work. In the process, you've become incredibly influential. So you talk about doing all of these other things, which is great, but there's really no amount of money that could make you more influential than you are now. So my question is: What are you going to do with all of the influence that you have right now? 

WEST: Well, influence isn't my definition of success—it's a by-product of my creativity. I just want to create more. I would be fine with making less money. I actually spend the majority of my money attempting to create more things. Not buying things or solidifying myself or trying to make my house bigger, or trying to show people how many Louis Vuitton bags I can get, or buying my way to a good seat at the table. My definition of success, again, is getting my ideas out there. The first company that has really given me a shot is Adidas. They did the deal ... I mean, Damon Dash did the deal, at the end of the day. He signed Kanye West 12 years ago. What does that mean now? What does that mean to music? You know, people say things about creativity and jobs and every 10 years, blah, blah, blah. But I don't have a desire to not continue making music. When I left Chicago and moved to New York, it wasn't because I didn't love Chicago; it was because I needed to go to New York. So right now, I've got other innovations and other thoughts that I want to pursue. As I was saying earlier, I create like a 3-year-old. When you're 3, you wake up one morning and say, "I wanna ride a bike." And then the next day, you wake up and say, "I wanna draw." I don't want to be in a situation where, because I was good enough at riding a bike one day, then that's all I can do for the rest of my life. I mean, you know firsthand, being a fine artist and then moving into the Hollywood space ... You know, I say to Renzo Rosso, Bernard Arnault, and François-Henri Pinault, the heads of Diesel, LVMH, and Kering, "Come to my show and look at the mountain I made. Look at these 20,000 people screaming, and then tell me I don't deserve to design a T-shirt." If I want to design a T-shirt in my lifetime, then please help me do it! People say, "Well, why don't you just do it on your own?" Are you telling me to sew every single T-shirt? People say, "Why do you antagonize the high-end companies and your fan base?" and this and that. But what I'm saying is that in working with partners like Louis Vuitton and Zanotti and Balmain and Fendi like I have—and please forgive me for using film as a metaphor because I hate when people do that with music—I feel like it's a better form of film that I'm working with when I work with them. I'm working with better cameras. I'm working with better editors ... Steve, please forgive me because I feel like it's super-patronizing whenever someone does an analogy or a metaphor that relates to the field that you currently work in 

MCQUEEN: No, not at all 

WEST: I'm sorry. I find it super-insulting whenever people give me a music analogy. It's like, "You know, I would have understood it if you just said it in English. You didn't have to put it in music terms, like you somehow know more about music or I would understand it better if it were in music terms." So please forgive me for putting that in film terms. I mean, talking about film to Steve McQueen ... 

MCQUEEN: [laughs] I grew up in Europe, in London, and you grew up in the States. When was the first time you came to Europe? Do you remember? 

WEST: I think it was when Damon Dash had me and some other Roc-A-Fella artists come over. He stressed the importance of connecting with London, especially. Then we went to France, and I hated France when we first went there. Now, of course, I love it. But at the time, there was a rapper out of Chicago who wanted me to show up at some event of his, and he was trying to threaten me in some way physically if I didn't show up because we had done a record together. And Dame Dash had to man-up on the situation and apply a bit of gangster to have them fall back, just for me to be able to get on that first flight to London 

MCQUEEN: It's interesting how when Malcolm X ventured out of the United States for the first time, he went to Europe, he went to Africa, he went to Mecca, and then, when he came back to America, he realized that, to some extent, for him, it wasn't about black or white, it was about people. In talking to you now, it seems like you feel the same way—that it's never really been about race for you, but at the same time, it has very much been about that, if you know what I mean 

WEST: My mission is about what I want to create. It's for people, for humanity. It's about things that can make the world better. I'm not saying that I'm going to make a better world; I'm just saying that I will provide some things that will help, and my glass ceiling that I'm facing is based on my color. You know, I was looking at some cheesy-ass MTV videos a while ago, and it was so funny because it was like, "Wow, these videos are pre-Michael Jackson"—and people forget that Michael Jackson had to fight to get on MTV because he was considered to be an urban artist. This was, like, the greatest pop star of all time, and they told him, "We're not gonna play your video because it doesn't fit our format." 

MCQUEEN: It actually stunned me to find out that you've never won Best Album at the Grammys. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it's kind of odd, considering what you've done in music over the last decade 

WEST: I wasn't even nominated for Best Album this year. This year, I only got two nominations by the Grammys: for Best Rap Album and Best Rap Song 

MCQUEEN: Well, that's my problem with all this stuff. It's ghettoization—and I'm talking about country as much as rap. It's all just music. And I've got a problem with people kind of trying to categorize it, where it's either good or it's bad. I find it all odd, to be honest. Have you ever been nominated for Best Album? 

WEST: I've been nominated for Best Album maybe three times. I made Dark Fantasy and Watch the Throne less than a year apart and neither of them got nominated. "Ni**as in Paris" [off Watch the Throne] wasn't nominated for Best Song either. But let's go into the fact that I have the most Grammys of any 36-year-old or 40-year-old or whatever, and I've never won a Grammy outside of the Rap or R&B categories. "Jesus Walks" lost Best Song to some other song; "Ni**as in Paris" wasn't nominated in that category. But those are the labels that people want to put on you. People see you in a certain way, so if I was doing a clothing line that had rock tees in it or whatever we just did for the "Yeezus" tour, which sells $400,000 of stuff in two days ... You know, I like Shame [2011] as much as 12 Years a Slave, but Hollywood likes the idea of a black director directing 12 Years a Slave more than it likes the idea of a black director directing Shame 

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